Eastern Panhandle Camaro Assoc.

Back in April I had brought my car to a local mechanic (PM me for a name) to have a cam seal replaced. In the process, an oil pan leak was created. It wasn't until around June 30th that I saw my Camaro again, and sure enough, the oil pan leak was still present.

Four days later on July 3rd, the engine started misfiring and then just simply quit altogether; something I believe to be an alternator. I had the same guy come get the car to fix the oil pan leak he created, plus fix whatever else the problem was. Now, it's September 1st, and NO CAMARO.

I contacted him and was told by somebody that worked with him (I think it was his wife) that my Camaro would be done this week. That was last week. Sure enough, it's still not fixed.

I've had it with this guy, and I'm ready to have my car towed elsewhere. If ANYBODY knows of ANYONE that isn't a freakin' idiot and will fix my Camaro, and you can give me a name, I'd be truly grateful. Otherwise, I'll probably wind up being raped by one of the two local Chevy dealers.

Thanks.

The best place around IMO is B-n-M Auto on Rt.11 towards Spring Mills. My car has been to there shop numerous times and they do great work. They are friendly and have a good understanding and knowledge of muscle cars.

They also stand behind their work really well. They gave my grandma a price quote for a brake job. When she went to pick her car up, it turns out they could not get the brakes they quoted her for, but instead replace them with better, more expensive brakes at the same price they quoted her for.

tmurph01 wrote:The best place around IMO is B-n-M Auto on Rt.11 towards Spring Mills. My car has been to there shop numerous times and they do great work. They are friendly and have a good understanding and knowledge of muscle cars.

They also stand behind their work really well. They gave my grandma a price quote for a brake job. When she went to pick her car up, it turns out they could not get the brakes they quoted her for, but instead replace them with better, more expensive brakes at the same price they quoted her for.

Thanks, Travis. I think that's where my car will be heading if this fool doesn't get the job done.

I spoke to him this morning and tried to be as nice as possible about it. I just told him, "We've been screwing off with this car for 5 months, and something needs to happen here. I need a date when I'm going to have my car back." He told me it would be done next week, so we'll see. If not, it's going to B-n-M.

Thanks for the lead, Travis. Hopefully I'll at least get to one meeting this year in my Camaro...if all goes well.

Ok, here's an update. I talked to this fool who has my car and told him he has until the middle of this week or the car's going elsewhere. He apologized (of course) and more excuses came! "I had some emergency jobs come in from out of state." I guess they took him 2 months? Apparently, everyone's car is a priority but mine. I figured my money spent just as well as anyone else's. Maybe not?

Anyway, I'm looking forward to having my car towed to someone else's shop (because I'm confident that's going to happen) and getting raked across the coals in the process. I can't wait.

Ok, so the Camaro Saga continues (continued). I just got the car back from "Cooter" the other night, and the leak persists, which at first was thought to be an oil pan.

I woke up yesterday morning and there was not any oil under the car. I thought all was merry in the world. I was wrong. I drove it, came home and parked it, then pulled it out of the garage later to make some more room, and that's when I noticed drips on the floor.

Instead of taking it back to "Cooter," I took it to Apple Valley Chevrolet. They discovered more than just the leak. They discovered that the transmission lines were also loose, so they tightened them up. They also discovered the leak, which happened to be in the rear of the valve-cover gasket. While replacing the gasket, the tech noticed oil coming up from one of the bolts in the back of the head. It turns out that the idiots that rebuilt the engine stripped a bolt (the bolt was just spinning), and that's where the seepage was coming from. The only way to properly correct the problem would be to remove the head, so instead the tech removed the bolt and wrapped enough teflon tape around it to be able to at least tighten the bolt enough that it wouldn't leak. I was advised that this was not the correct way to fix it, and it was simply a "band-aid." As long as it holds, I don't care.

Anyway, the service advisor I'm in contact with is Lucas. He seems like an honest guy to deal with. For the record, now maybe this is just my impression, but from speaking with him, it sounded as if he was doing his best to not tell me that the car was a total hack-job. He was fairly reserved about his opinion of the work that had been done in the past. I'd have to say that given my issues, I'm going to have to side with him on this one.

It appears seems as if this engine is leaking from any place that it can possibly leak from. By now, I'm fairly certain that I got shafted out of my $7800 for a half-assed build when I was promised a quality job. Gunther Machine in Frederick, MD won't be getting any good referrals from me anytime soon. I'm discovering that my engine was just slapped together. There is no excuse for wrong bolts being installed regarding the timing chain, and even less of an excuse for stripped bolts. The engine was built on a rotisserie, not while it was sitting in the car.

I don't know what took so long, but I discovered something today. I discovered that I'm not chasing car problems, but simply chasing other peoples' f-ups from working on it.

And Travis, this is for you, pal. While I was there, I spotted this very hot red Camaro with black stripes (and I'm assuming optional wheels) sitting in the service bay where the service writers sit. This car was nothing short of gorgeous, and for only a second, and a second only, I couldn't have cared less what this car weighed. If I had the money, I probably would've bought it...but only if it was a 6spd. Besides the weight, the only problem with it was it had an automatic.

I should contact GM and tell them, "I like the new 5th Generation Camaro. Now, tell me where the 450 unnecessary pounds are."

Dan,

Sounds like Apple Valley treated you well. There is no excuse for using the wrong bolts and leaving a bolt with stripped threads. Actually, I would have preferred that Apple Valley drill and tap new threads while it was apart.

Now, about the 5th gen's weight. Why the angst about the "extra" 450 lbs? And how did you come to the conclusion that the number is 450? I would bet that Chevrolet spent a great deal of time minimizing the weight while meeting all regulations. Finally, if you drive a 6-speed 2SS, I promise you that you will forget about the "extra" weight. it is a monster.

Dan,

Never mind on the second part of my post above. I just saw the thread on Camaro5. No need to start a similar discussion here. It will be interesting to see if Scott replies.

jmcbeth wrote:Dan,

Sounds like Apple Valley treated you well. There is no excuse for using the wrong bolts and leaving a bolt with stripped threads. Actually, I would have preferred that Apple Valley drill and tap new threads while it was apart.

Now, about the 5th gen's weight. Why the angst about the "extra" 450 lbs? And how did you come to the conclusion that the number is 450? I would bet that Chevrolet spent a great deal of time minimizing the weight while meeting all regulations. Finally, if you drive a 6-speed 2SS, I promise you that you will forget about the "extra" weight. it is a monster.

John, Lucas at Apple Valley advised me that in order to "repair" the stripped hole, the head would need to be removed. Otherwise, I would have told him to go through with it. To remove the head, that would have set me back $1500-$1800. I'd assume that if it was possible for them to tap new threads he would have suggested it, but I didn't find that out until after the car was completed. That would have required them to remove all the prior work they did, and of course, that would have added up to double the price.

No, there isn't an excuse for these "mishaps," and I'm quickly discovering that I was taken on a $7800 ride. Not good.

As for the 5th Generation, I guess I just had certain expectations for the car when it came out. With all of the imports weighing in under 3400 lbs, and how GM represented the new Camaro as "the alternative," I just expected GM to aim for a lower weight. Power/weight is just important to me. While I wouldn't expect a Camaro to ever handle like an STi or Evolution, the lighter the car, the better it's going to handle; at least that's my experience.

I dunno, man. I love Camaros. I always have. I'm just finding it extremely difficult to find love for this car due to its weight. This probably isn't the best comparison, but it's kinda like forcing myself to convince myself Rosie O'Donnell would look good in a 2-piece.

I guess, I could even accept it if the car weighed 3600 lbs. Since it wouldn't be a daily driver anyway, I'm not concerned about all of the unnecessary "tech" packages and stuff like that. As long as the thing had a manual, a/c, and a radio, I'd be good to go. That's all I really want. I'm not interested in 21 inch wheels, a body kit, huge spoilers, full-leather interior, NAV, etc. All I want is a base-model stripper. I wonder if it's possible to order something like this.

Dare I even say that despite feeling guilty, I did go to the Ford dealer, and they told me that I could order a "Deluxe" (base model) GT and add the Track Pack, which is apparently only available on the "Premium" (loaded) GT. These cars weigh in at about 3450 (3580 for "Premium") lbs, and I could have it with 3.73s gears and a 5spd. There is also an optional Roush supercharger that I could get for it, which would be covered for 3yrs/36k under the factory warranty, and puts out 435 hp/400 lb-ft tq.

In all honesty, I'm equally torn between them, and if I can get a new SS to where I want it to be, that's what I'm going to spring for, but if it's going to be near impossible to make it what I want it to be, then I'll have to consider my options. Money is hard to make, and I don't want to regret my purchase. I really hate being stuck in this position.

Whatever the case, I'll be holding on to the '94.

Dan,

As I stated over on Camro5, I doubt very seriously you can shed 450 lbs from this car. If it is that important to you, then it doesn't sound like you will be happy with a Camaro. The Mustang is a nice car too. (I wouldn't want to post that on Camaro5!) Of course, you could still be in the EPCA, so long as you kept the 94. We all could then have something else to give you a hard time about.Yeah, that's the ticket! I'm voting for the Mustang.

If I could convince her, I'd sell Carol's Z4 to you in a minute. Unfortunately, she loves it...

Im just sitting here thinking Dan... it seems you want a muscle car with good power, weight, and eye appeal, but at the same time you have a bond and soft spot for not only yours, but Camaros in general.

Here is a thought,.. why not take half of what you would spend on a new car ($15,000 - $19,000) and dump into your car? With that you could uy a new engine, with a warranty, get your interior fixed, and get a new paint job. After going to a lot of shows, I have developped quite a soft spot for the LT1 Camaros and I love to see the ones that people fix up.

Check out Golen. They offer great LT1 engines. I personally like the 383 longblock with 400hp for only $5,500. Golen also offers a warranty on their engines:
http://www.golenengineservice.com/html/lt1_lt4.html

I saw this LT1 at the recent All-Chevy show and immediately thought of you. This was an immaculate car, with a very shiny paint job:



I personally think if you want a new car, but still love your camaro, than you should think about giving it a second life Dan. I know you already have a lot invested into it, but at the same time,.. you keep dumping more into it to not only fix it, but keep atttempting to make it the car you want. I think if you decided on going this route, you would accomplish both plus I know I would love to see another awesome LT1 in the club to cruise around with Tyler's.

tmurph01 wrote:Im just sitting here thinking Dan... it seems you want a muscle car with good power, weight, and eye appeal, but at the same time you have a bond and soft spot for not only yours, but Camaros in general.

Here is a thought,.. why not take half of what you would spend on a new car ($15,000 - $19,000) and dump into your car? With that you could uy a new engine, with a warranty, get your interior fixed, and get a new paint job. After going to a lot of shows, I have developped quite a soft spot for the LT1 Camaros and I love to see the ones that people fix up.

Check out Golen. They offer great LT1 engines. I personally like the 383 longblock with 400hp for only $5,500. Golen also offers a warranty on their engines:
http://www.golenengineservice.com/html/lt1_lt4.html

I saw this LT1 at the recent All-Chevy show and immediately thought of you. This was an immaculate car, with a very shiny paint job:



I personally think if you want a new car, but still love your camaro, than you should think about giving it a second life Dan. I know you already have a lot invested into it, but at the same time,.. you keep dumping more into it to not only fix it, but keep atttempting to make it the car you want. I think if you decided on going this route, you would accomplish both plus I know I would love to see another awesome LT1 in the club to cruise around with Tyler's.

I feel like more of a flip-flop than John Kerry in the 2004 Presidential Election. I'm probably more frustrated with myself than anyone else is.

FWIW, I had a case of "be careful what you wish for" today. A brand new SS pulled up alongside on I-81, and I just happened to be driving my Camaro. They're quick for their weight, I'll give'em that. Side by side the entire way down the road. I had him by a nose, and I mean...a nose.

I dunno. I guess I just want my cake and to eat it too. Maybe I just set my expectations way too high.

To address fixing up the car, I guess things are fixed, and I've thought about just dumping a whole lot into the Camaro to give it a "second life," and I would certainly do that, but damned if I can find someone to do a quality job. Everywhere I've taken that car I've been screwed in one form or another. Honestly, besides European Auto Service in Silver Spring, MD (he refuses to work on it anymore...), I think the only other shop that's even looked at that car that was honest was probably Apple Valley, and dealers charge a ton per hour for labor. I honestly don't think $15,000 is going to take me very far with having the car "restored" by a car dealership.

I have heard of Golen, and from what I understand, they have an excellent reputation. If I wind up with trouble, I'll certainly keep them in mind.

I dunno, I'm just feeling very overwhelmed. I'd love to have the Camaro fixed up, but I feel like I'm on a sinking ship. At this point, I'm ready to go buy anything that's just as fast and around the same weight, and I don't care what it is. I NEED a Muscle Car. It's not a matter of wanting one; I NEED one. It is an addiction. While I certainly wouldn't call a new Muscle Car a "replacement," it would certainly fill a huge void that the Camaro is leaving me, considering it never runs. I guess I'm looking for a "substitute" that is as close to the Camaro as I can get.

Dan, if you do decide to gie her a secnd life let us know. I know with the members in this club, we could do a lot of the cosmetic stuff, and even some of the mechanical ourselves. Tyler knows how to uninstall and reinstall every interior panel the right way. I am a wiz at buffing/detailing. Brandon has done about 5 camswaps. John has a lift... ....

You wouldn't need to pay a shop to do everything on the car,.. mainly just the drivetrain and paint. Everything else we should be able to take care of.

Just letting you know the help and knowledge is here should you need it.

tmurph01 wrote:Dan, if you do decide to gie her a secnd life let us know. I know with the members in this club, we could do a lot of the cosmetic stuff, and even some of the mechanical ourselves. Tyler knows how to uninstall and reinstall every interior panel the right way. I am a wiz at buffing/detailing. Brandon has done about 5 camswaps. John has a lift... ....

You wouldn't need to pay a shop to do everything on the car,.. mainly just the drivetrain and paint. Everything else we should be able to take care of.

Just letting you know the help and knowledge is here should you need it.

If everyone is willing to pitch in to help out, I would be SUPER-APPRECIATIVE! Heck, it could be the "club project car."

I've kicked this idea around, and I think that maybe instead of buying a "substitute," I will put the money towards giving her a "second life." It'll get done quicker, and I'll probably be happier. I've been going through a list of needs (and a few "wants"), and here they are, for the most part.

Cosmetic:

1 front clip
1 passenger-side fender
2 fog light assemblies
1 rocker panel
2 exhaust tips
1 set of C5 Z06 wheels
1 aftermarket decklid spoiler
1 2" VFN Fiberglass "cowl" hood
Body prep and paint

Suspension:

4 shocks/struts
4 springs
2 sway bars
1 strut-tower brace
1 set of subframe connectors
All necessary bushings (polyurethane)

Interior:

1 "dash pad"
1 set of seat covers (driver seat needs to be re-stuffed)
1 full headliner (entire "particle board" piece and material)
1 carpet
1 center console (console "glove box" is broken)
1 radio installed
4 speakers installed (rewiring probably needed for speakers and radio, plus removal of old wiring)

Mechanical:

1 GM 12 bolt rear with either 3.42 or 3.73 gears
1 ATI Procharger (6 lbs)
1 high-flow intake manifold
1 52mm throttle body

I'm not so sure that $15,000 would cover all that.

Well Dan, if you are serious about this, than I am all for helping you out. Maybe John can post over on the MD forum and see if any of their members have some of those items, mainly the body parts, laying around they would want to get rid of.

-As far as the interior goes,.. I know Tyler has found the good prices on interior stuff, so maybe he will chime in.
-I could set you up with a killer audio set up for a good price... Same as in my car!
-Brandon might be able to use his connections to find you some of the mechanical and suspension parts.
-Ebay has C5 Z06 wheels of all finishes for under $700 for all four if you look.

Just let us know what you want to do.

tmurph01 wrote:Well Dan, if you are serious about this, than I am all for helping you out. Maybe John can post over on the MD forum and see if any of their members have some of those items, mainly the body parts, laying around they would want to get rid of.

As far as the interior goes,.. I know Tyler has found the good prices on interior stuff, so maybe he will chime in.
I could set you up with a killer audio set up for a good price... Same as in my car!
Brandon might be able to use his connections to find you some of the mechanical and suspension parts.

Just let us know what you want to do.

Sounds like a plan. I already have the radio/speakers and a set of springs. The rest are things I'd have to get. Finances are a bit on the tight side, so it's doubtful I'll be doing much of the work right now.